RFC open on newLISP documentation

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:30 pm

Re install:
selecting the rpm from within Gnome Nautilus and selecting open with software installer
the messages I get are

The following packages have bad signatures:
/home/nigel/newlisp-8.0.6-1mdk.i586.rpm

Do you want to continue installation ?

after saying OK I get

The signature of the package 'newlsip-8.0.6-1mdk.i586.rpm' is not correct.

gpg: Signature made Tue 8 Jun 2004 01:52:27 AM EST using DSA key ID 3F83F9A6
gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found

Do you want to install it anyway?

to which I say OK. I've seen a hint on the r-project site forewarning of such errors from
their package and advising to ignore them. Probably just has to do with the default checking
behaviour when invoked from Nautilus?

Re manual locations
see my edited entry above- I did have an old newlisp-tk.config in my home directory.

Nigel

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:25 pm

When I install from the command line with:

rpm -i newlisp-8.0.6-1mdk.i586.rpm

I do not get this warning. I thought gpg verification of rpm packages is optional, perhaps you have to download the rpm-gpg-signature and place it somewhere on your system (on your gpg keyring?) ?. Does this also happen when you install manually?

Lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:52 pm

No not with manual install :
[root@p800 nigel]# rpm -e newlisp-8.0.6
[root@p800 nigel]# rpm -i newlisp-8.0.6-1mdk.i586.rpm
[root@p800 nigel]# rpm -e newlisp-8.0.6
[root@p800 nigel]# rpm -iv newlisp-8.0.6-1mdk.i586.rpm
Preparing packages for installation...
newlisp-8.0.6-1mdk
[root@p800 nigel]#

I think it is a general policy of the Mandrake gui rpm installers to check
sigs by default.
I will try setting up sig checking etc to check it on a my system.

Nigel

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:31 pm

The only reason I am signing these RPMs is, that somewhere I read that RedHat and Mandrake are only accepting signed RPMs for inclusion in their distributions.

I wonder if all that RPM stuff flowing around on the Internet is signed or not? Should I drop signing? Or should I document the warning messages, where - on the website? (after installation it's too late). Another possibility would be offering both: signed and unsigned versions of RPMs (which means more release/maintenance work :-( )

Lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:09 am

I think the mandrake gui will also warn if a totally unsigned rpm
is selected - probably putting an information statement to the effect that
warnings should be expected if gpg signing is not set up should be on the download directory readme, FAQ (probably needed) Installation section, and website link to rpm download. From memory R-project recommmends manual install but also advises a warning may occur if other methods are used. I think the signing should stay.

Nigel

HPW · Post by **HPW** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:29 am

In the doc of 'net-send-to' of 8.1.0 RC1:

'See also and net-listen with "udp" option.'

The hyperlink to 'net-listen' contains the 'and'.

'For blocking short UDP transactions see and net-receive-udp.'

The hyperlink to 'net-receive-udp' contains the 'and'.

In the doc of 'net-send-from' of 8.1.0 RC1:

'For blocking short UDP transactions see and net-receive-udp.'

The hyperlink to 'net-receive-udp' contains the 'and'.

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:38 pm

re gpg signature on rpm
after doing:
[root@p800 nigel]# gpg --import newlisp-8.0.6-signature-pub-key.asc
gpg: key 3F83F9A6: public key "Lutz Mueller (newlisp.org) <lutz@nuevatec.com>" imported
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg: imported: 1
[root@p800 nigel]# rpm -e newlisp-8.0.6
[root@p800 nigel]#

when the rpm was selected in nautilus and opened with software installer all
proceeded with any comment regarding gpg signature. The .asc file
was the page http://www.newlisp.org/downloads/newlis ... re-pub-key
saved as a .asc file from within Mozilla. A brief paragraph on doing the gpg --import
may be worthwhile in the docs.

Nigel

eddier · Post by **eddier** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:27 pm

I know the manual clearly states that (log (exp 1)) = 1 and (exp (log 1)) = 1 which means that log in the natural log. However, in every math text I have ever read or used, log x means the common logarithm of x and ln x is the natural logarithm of x. The common logarithm has a base of 10. In other words (pow 10 (log x)) = x given x > 0 and (log (pow 10)) = x.

Could you change log x to ln x and add log x to be the common log to make newLISP more inline with mathematics?

Eddie

eddier · Post by **eddier** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:42 pm

I know the manual clearly states that (log (exp 1)) = 1 and (exp (log 1)) = 1 which means that the newLISP log is the natural log. However, in every math text I have ever read or used, log x means the common logarithm of x and ln x is the natural logarithm of x. The common logarithm has a base of 10.

Could you change log x to ln x and add log x to be the common log to make newLISP more inline with mathematics?

Eddie

eddier · Post by **eddier** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:43 pm

I know the manual clearly states that (log (exp 1)) = 1 and (exp (log 1)) = 1 which means that the newLISP log is the natural log. However, in every math text I have ever read or used, log x means the common logarithm of x and ln x is the natural logarithm of x. The common logarithm has a base of 10.

Could you change log x to ln x and add log x to be the common log to make newLISP more in line with mathematics?

Eddie

eddier · Post by **eddier** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:45 pm

Sorry for the repeats for some reason when I clicked the submit it gave an error. So I copied and pasted the message so that I could try again. But, when I came back it was posted 3 times.

Eddie

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:55 pm

There seems to be a difference in programming languages and math books. In all programming languages I checked i.e. in 'C', Java and Perl, log() is the natural logarithm. I adopted the programming way, because most programmers are not mathmaticians. I agree that Math should have the 'say' on this issue, but I think I have to stay inside programming language conventions.

You could do: (constant (global 'ln) log) to get a global natural log for 'ln'

Lutz

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:16 pm

Thanks Hans-Peter for the manual corrections, they will be in the next revision.

Thanks Nigel for the "gpg --import" tip I will include all this on an "Installation" page on the newlisp.org web site.

Lutz

eddier · Post by **eddier** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:33 pm

Ok. I'd forgotten what the other languages did, I just assumed that they used ln instead of log. I use ln x in mathematics so much It took me by supprise when (ln x) gave an error.

Eddie

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:20 pm

Just checking if the boards works again ... yes it does ... thanks Ryon for fixing this.

There is now a link to an updated INSTALL file on the site in the documentation section.

lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:13 pm

A suggestion:
instead of
Without using step (1) the RPM package manager will issue warning
message but correctly install the package.

perhaps
Without using step (1) the RPM package manager will issue signature warning
messages to which it is safe to reply OK. The package will correctly install.

Just to make the safety of it explicit.
Nigel

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:27 am

thanks Nigel, I worked it in

lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:51 am

As a freshmeat announcement is palnned which will attract those from
outside the lisp community and new users perhaps a FAQ would be
worth having on the documentation page (or directly in link list).
If I look at a new language/program I often look for a FAQ as it is
usually set up as a quick intro (which could also be delt with on an
"About" page) and highlights if any issues apply.
Most of it could be extracted from the current manual but be in more
question and answer form.
Topics beyound usual Installation etc could be
Relation to other Lisps and Scheme.
Approach to GUI implementation.
Scoping.
CGI Scripting.

Thoughts?
Nigel

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:45 pm

For some time I have two pages in the works (1) Why newLISP? and (2) Myths about newLISP. I haven't been very happy with these mostly because of the format, they are written in. I think redoing the info contained in these pages in a FAQ format is the idea I needed. It also gives me the opportunity to merge both pages into one format, thanks Nigel.

Lutz

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:55 pm

There is a new version of the 8.1.0 manual in: http://newlisp.org/downloads/developmen ... anual.html which has new paragraphs "UDP Communications" in the functions 'net-listen' and 'net-connect'.

Except for updating the Mac OSX library import interface code, there have been no code changes since version 8.1.0-rc2. The plan is, to release 8.1.0 during the coming week. I am still working on an FAQ.

I wonder If Todd from Arizona State U. is reading this to give me a feedback about the new UDP functionality and the updated Mac OSX interface. I have re-tested the library 'import' function on OSX 10.2 - Darwin 6.8, but not used it else.

Lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:36 pm

A couple of FAQ typos

uses onlyu the most

Westenr World

Also

(define (double c) (+ x x)) ; defines a new function to double numbers

runs over the dotty margin.

Nice FAQ

Nigel

Sammo · Post by **Sammo** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:05 am

I agree ... nice FAQ!

(define (double c) (+ x x))

should be

(define (double x) (+ x x))

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:23 pm

Thanks Nigel and Sam for your corrections and encouraging comments about the FAQ, it will probably grow over time.

Lutz

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:22 pm

Further FAQ typos

"most deal with Common LISP or Scheme, to different older standards of LISP"
? should be
"most deal with Common LISP or Scheme, two different older standards of LISP"

"but for a few applications with big data amounts a random access in lists gets to slow."
? should be
"but for a few applications with big data amounts a random access into lists gets too slow."

newLISP has very powerful scaleable symbol processing.
is?
newLISP has very powerful scalable symbol processing.

you will only need to set uou locale lovale using the newlISP function set-locale.
???
you will only need to set your locale using the newLISP function set-locale.

Nigel

nigelbrown · Post by **nigelbrown** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:34 pm

Memory management corrections:

from de-referencing memory objects due to new assignments or change of those memorys object in there contents.
?is
from de-referencing memory objects due to new assignments or change of those memory objects in their contents.

If this un-referenced memory were not taken care of by deletion than newLISP would run out
is?
If this un-referenced memory were not taken care of by deletion then newLISP would run out

stored directly in newLISPs LISP cells
is?
stored directly in newLISP's LISP cells

Matrix function in newLISP will allocate memory for matrix space than perform matrix operations like multiplication or inversion more efficient on those matrices before converting them back to LISP cells and freeing memory space for the matrices.
is?
Matrix functions in newLISP will allocate memory for matrix space then perform matrix operations like multiplication or inversion more efficiently on those matrices before converting them back to LISP cells and freeing memory space from the matrices.

You may not agree with all suggestions.
Nigel