newlispfanclub.alh.net

Known newLISP hater (from c.l.l.) Stephan Scholl takes a dig at newLISP in a recent blog entry (and the entry is about Arc, not newLISP):

http://www.no-spoon.de/articles/2007/04 ... -arc-again

complete with a comment by 'ken', the one-man echo chamber. What you should notice is that it is a "drive by" dig and no reason is given for their apparent displeasure with newLISP. For that reason, they qualify in my book as "haters", that is people who say that something is wrong but do not have the ability, lack the courage, or are too intellectually lazy to explain their position. (Personally, and until I see otherwise, I vote for all three reasons.)

Unsubstantiated claims like this are typically not motivated by the subject at hand (in this case newLISP), but rather childish people's attempt to demonstrate the "righteousness" of their particular view, by way of making snide and public marginalizations, in order to mask a deep-seated insecurity or lack of confidence about their own position. Add some sad "bandwagoning" by the likes of 'ken', and you have the familiar formulae we see on bad TV programming.

Let's analyze the entry as regards newLISP (it's all in the last paragraph), shall we?

According to the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*), we are "misguided people" and by implication "language zealots"; although I don't see this -- I mean after all I found his blog entry on planet lisp; why would I be reading that, as a newLISP programmer? And get this: I know more languages than newLISP AND read about them (and still use newLISP); however, I did not check the list of approved languages issued by the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*), so once again I find myself part of the "misguided people."

BUT, after all newLISP is not (*whisper*) really a Lisp (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) according to the subtle Jedi mind tricks of the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*). BUT ... maybe he is trying to tell me I'm really *not* a newLISP programmer. Wow! His genius knows no bounds and is so clever and deep, he is causing my brain to explode!

And Lutz, by the way, the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*), by implication, compares you to Paul Graham; I'm sure the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) wants us lowly newLISP programmers to be concerned (very, very concerned, and with deeply furrowed brows at that) that you have not found the same financial success as Paul Graham (at least not so publicly). Yet another reason not to use newLISP! (*Pulling hair and gnashing teeth*)

OK you poor, poor "misguided" newLISP programmers: GIVE UP!!! The Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) has spoken!!

We infidels cannot deny THE TRUTH any longer! We have transgressed and must pay! I will set the example and get some rusty razor blades and slit my wrists now!!! Aaaaahhhhhhh!!!!! ;-)

Was he talking about NewLISP-like languages, or new Lisp-like languages?

Maybe he hasn't reviewed the right one yet!

Blog wrote:Not a black sheep from "misguided people".

Ken (commenter) wrote:The thing I love about the Lisp community is that whether you're a Common Lisper, a Schemer, or even an Arcer, we can all get together and make fun of how much newLISP sucks. :-)

newLISP is clearly being attacked, but even so, the post contains little, if any, real substance. Ironic, almost.

Ricky - after you with the razors! But on reflection, I quite like being an infidel, and I'm happy to be considered a non-programmer: writer, musician, artist, bricoleur (:-), or timewaster are better descriptions.

Another old-Lisper (John Foderaro) suggested that the name Lisp ought to have been trademarked, so that inferior languages can't use it. I think you have to see their comments as reflecting the insecurity felt by an established group seeing the boundaries under threat.

Hi Ricky,

Thanks for this funny and insightful post, and for the heads-up on Stefan's blog entry.

I don't have any rusty razor blades handy, but I do live about 100 feet from frequently used train tracks and I think I hear a train coming now! The newLISP martyrs are beginning to add up.

m i c h a e l

P.S. cormullion - I think your 'insecurity felt by an established group' comment is spot on.

m i c h a e l left a nice message on the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan's (*genuflection*) blog entry, asking the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) to elaborate about the "drive by" comment on newLISP. In typical the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) form, he "name calls" against newLISP again and provides links to the comments of others (of course, he can't make his own arguments).

So I read the first link from LtU: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/257 and I must say that Frontera is the MAN!!!! I didn't know about this but he took on the Kogut guy there in the comment section. Just thought I'd mention it because I thought it was very good. So, good that I had to tell the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) about it: http://www.no-spoon.de/articles/2007/04 ... omment-147.

Our apologies to 'ken' and the Great Programming Language Genius Stephan (*genuflection*) for ruining their formerly perfect echo chamber.