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(semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:51 am
by vedaviz
I was surfing internet for LISP and Prolog, and how to use that in Artificial intelligence for text processing (I need programming language to allow analyze the text - part-of-speech-tagging, finding noun-verb-phrases, and converting that into "chess notation" like N.V - so that it can be animated in some opengl/directx etc 3d graphics).

So I found this image - ... sp-parte1/
there is shown some opengl.lsp
But I do not know how to work with opengl in any programming language actually.
So first of all, how can I use newlisp for opengl and directx for mac-os, iOS, Win, Android or maybe even Java mobiles? the problem is that I want to use some technologies and languages which are more or less stable and will not change just in one-two years so I have to learn some new technology then port it on another platfrom. I mean if Lisp is also an old language, and newlisp is a new one, still, what is the present and future of newlisp and how it can help in problem which I try to solve -

So I've read that AI languages - they can allow analyzing the text using some rules like "boy is a noun", "say is a verb", and then combine that into some "Noun-verb phrase" like "boy says".
So I want to do that automatically. I mean I am sure that there are different technologies to automatically convert text of one language into another language - machine translation (I know very well google translate),
so I guess they use some ai languages like lisp and prolog.
But they do not actually use graphics much.
Even mind-mapping software - they only may draw some simple 2d raster icons, which do not animate. So thus such programs like machine translating never use technologies like opengl/directx...
So I want to combine AI in computer games, for graphics/movies etc
with AI for language processng, and make that work in such program.
See for example - widgit -
they automatically convert words into images, and that is nice! especially for children, it text is not very abstaract, and is more about some stories, or kind of scenario for some movie/game where are different persons are described,and what they do.

SO i made own program -
see it here -
it uses now around 1000 images from widgit (I got them by reading text of Bhagavad-Gita as it is with purports, and getting all images for all words which widgit provides)...

so problems here:
1 widgit doesn't provide images for each and every word.
2 widgit cannot analyze text using part-of-speech tagging, cannot find relationships between words, between sentences, phrases etc.
3 widgit cannot support opengl 3d animation graphics.

I searched for few similar programs -
I found nice one - called
this one can read your input - you just type a text using some of around 40 words,
- among them are nouns, verbs, pronouns, and even proper names which you can type in manually.

but this program is also limited. it was written some 30 years ago.
but it was a success. it used just some 16KBytes memory, it could run on soe 3MHz computer etc,
and it could animate a sentence with nouns, verbs, numerals, articles, custom proper names etc - into some animated story. and it could replay it...

so time had passed of course. Now I see that there are chess programs - and they use some portable game notation PGN file format to record down chess games. So, the thing is that if we consider any story written in machine story to be written in story notation - then it can be saved into some file, reloaded etc. I mean that chess can be expanded into something greater - there can be not just words like King, Queen, bishop, horse etc, and not just actions to move (from LEtter1..8, to another-letter1..8) (x1y1, x2y2).
If chess is expanded - we get many computer games like strategy games and they can use many persons, many actions etc, many ai engines, and they use graphics like opengl directx.

so i see problem that program should have some database - maybe mysql or something else.

actually io was thinking of this,
and cocluded that there might be few modules:
1 computer linguistics module (lisp/prolog for ai and languages)
2 chess notation module (or similar to spinnaker story machine engine to do conversion between text and graphics)
this module is something which is common for visual programming languages like ALICE, scratch etc - they also can do programming, but that is just manual - you can find 3d objects you like, then you add there some properties, change actions, and then run compile - and that it works. it is complicated also.
But why not use thousands of free 3d studio max etc objects on internet? and convert them to opengl directx and show them for each NOUN found in text? And why not apply to each of those NOUNs (3d objetcs) a VERB or Action/script, just like in computer games ? there are so many games, thousands and they use different actions for different actors - do this and that, do here there etc. so this might be connected to text input.
3 there must be some module like in widgit that text is got from input, and then it is converted to some images
4 programming of graphics module - all that must go together - all those images, 3d objects, animation scripts and texts, and finally text is converted into game or movie. by game I mean something like chess game - anyone can open some famous chess game in Portable game notation format, and REDO all the moves and see how all the chess pieces do this and that... So I mean something like chess by saying game here - game which can save all moves, and then redo them. that means usage of NOUN.VERB notation - I am sure that lisp/prolog can handle this - there might be many algorythms for that already...

well maybe lisp is a bit different. if ProLOG is for logic, then maybe I should find some way to do that in prolog, but what about graphics? how can really newlisp help with that?

anyone welcome to answer, say a few words, or even criticize.
I just have some experience in programming using assembler, and (visual/q) basic (sine DOS versions and for win3.1), but also tried to learn other languages. Now I'm puzzled if I should switch to faster C/C++, but this seem to be not the best solution.
I look forward AI programming in lisp/prolog.
though I was adviced to use some LUA for opengl, but I also not sure how to connect that to lisp/prolog and natural language processing...

So, I had experience with programming, but not really with directx opengl. Now i want to use that technologies and thus to convert words into opengl/directx.

For example simplest thing I want to do in some newlisp - how can I get input in some noun.verb form (like in chess PGN format), and then show it on screen using opengl showtext functions (or directx? though it is only for win, but I also use macos and linux/android, so directx is no the best for every platform).

So here is a problem and you can help me with the solution...

yes, actually i was thinking... maybe this program can be done opensource,
thus different people can together work on this, so this is developed faster.
And also I want to know - maybe something like this already exist? So I do not invent wheel again?

I'm asking this becasue I know that there are some programs like autocad/3d studio max/blender - they may also use some command line or scripts like prolog/lisp (now sure exactly, but autocad - sure), so that I can type in some words, and they are converted into some 2d graphics, or even into 3d. But of course that is done in some format, in some programming language. So anyway. the thing that there text is connected with visualization that in graphics. And if user does this input manually - he can do some automation - record key presses, mouse clicks, and then rerun that - just like edit/redo history is used in chess etc.

so I find many similarities here. Also - there are 3d engines like NeoAxis using ogre3d etc. THere say one can load some example, and just click text on the screen, some 'control panel' to generate some objects, and they appear, do this and that. BUt the thing is that input - to click on this or that text or icon or menu command - is done manually. But I want to make it automatic - just like chess allows - just open file, and then show all that visually, like in turn-by-turn game...

for example I think of some special computer file format - to record all the events in game in some common file format - # Actor.Action # Actor.Action # Actor.Action # Actor.Action
like this. So it is like in chess..
so when I open some scenario for movie or game or cartoons (that actually can make millions of dollars, remember movies like the matrix), it should be automatically analized similarly to chess - find Noun+Verbs in each sentence, and then show them on screen in 3d, animate. just like in chess...

It must be very nice!!!! =-)

anyone, any ideas? any suggestiong?
I need something to simplify my work.
first, I need some dictionary of nouns and verbs.
they must have some simple fields - word+part-of-speech.
of course it is for one language, and also if same word may have few part-of-speech-tags - ok let that be. so there lips/prolog (newlisp) might help.
where can i get free source codes for this text processing? to analize text?
I hope there are some free engines, free libraries for that? especially for home/non-commercial/educational use?
If I don't earn money on this - can I use technology like this in my program?

I am interested in this because there are countless texts, and countless games/movies.
so, usually games and movies are done for some not very good scenario - I mean popular movie on each tv channel, but some movies games are nice of course (religious, philosophical, mythological or even historical).
so anyway, if those texts can be automatically analized - to find actors, find the scenes, find all instances of words/images in dictionary for each sentence etc... this would create some knowledge base or expert system. Like mind-map. So then it can be visualized.

Well, anyone please write something here. Can anyone give direct links for everything I need to write this program? AI for text, AI for graphics?

thank you in advance

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:34 am
by cormullion
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" - ancient Chinese proverb

Perhaps you could just ask one simple question relating to the first step. And take it from there.

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:33 am
by tumble
vedaviz, you need to talk to a computational linguist. I doubt that there are any reading this forum.

(And although it's not really relevant, I can't type "computational linguist" in any context without linking to this cartoon: .)

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:28 pm
by Ryon
"A problem properly stated is half solved" is a phrase that comes to mind here. It sounds to me that you are trying to solve too many big problems all at once.

Peter van Eerten has a great page on using newLISP with OpenGL at Maybe this will help with the graphics part of your project.

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:59 am
by vedaviz
tumble wrote:vedaviz, you need to talk to a computational linguist. I doubt that there are any reading this forum.

(And although it's not really relevant, I can't type "computational linguist" in any context without linking to this cartoon: .)

well yes I've read one book on computer linguistics, and they quote some words of some 60-es or 70-es that "everyone of computer linguists is atheist", but I doubt is that is correct, because if God is source of everything, then why would He be against using language and using computers to spread His message.

I think that if there is science of God (theology and anything related to that including computer linguistics), then there is also "scientific atheism" which is agasint God, and the last also may include computer linguistics.

But we see may spiritual TV channels, many religious websites - does it mean that science is always against God? NO. If that science aims to help God, serve Him - that is spiritual science.

So that link which you say... Yes maybe they do not know about God precisely... They are impersonalist so they may have some misunderstanding about God, and they end up in some material sense-gratification.

But as for me, I studied languages and have a hobby as programming, so I can't understand why they say that "computer linguistics is something so atheistic". At least I am sure that it is better to be faithful computer linguist that atheistic so-called religious leader, who may steal money from his followers and do other crimes. So in my case computer linguistics even helps me in spiritual progress, because I can use some scripts in text file, and find what I need faster then just by using paper book. So thus I was thinking that adding some graphics to texts is a very good idea, especially if that graphics can support animation.

"vedaviz, you need to talk to a computational linguist. I doubt that there are any reading this forum."
I wanted to study that, but there were some problems that I couldn't but (it doesn't matter here).

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:32 am
by vedaviz
Ryon wrote:"A problem properly stated is half solved" is a phrase that comes to mind here. It sounds to me that you are trying to solve too many big problems all at once.

Peter van Eerten has a great page on using newLISP with OpenGL at Maybe this will help with the graphics part of your project.

Well, one first problem is chess. We can start from this one.
Simplest is this:
take a sentence, get from it Noun+verb,
then try to animate it in OpenGL using newlisp.
I want to make some library in newlisp which uses opengl objects.
then I need to use some text control, or show the text on the screen using OpenGL.
then when I open text file or enter it manually, I I want that when program finds some words, it checks library, and if there is a word in library - so there is an image or animation - it would show a picture, 3d object, - or animation, or both if I am searching for both Noun+Verb combination in a text.

Probably this very same problem is already solved in some programs like chess - they usually open files - PGN files - that's Portable Game Notation files where all moves of chess figures are recorded. So they do similar task - open text, read some Noun+verb (but they have just 6 nouns like King, Queen, Horse etc, and just 3 kinds of move "-" - just to go normally, "x" to beat one figure with another, and few other special moves.). The only thing is that they record everything in some format like "Letter+Number" for coordinates, but in real world, that is to be represented differently. But some programs like Spinnaker story machine - they do not care for that - they simply show characters in random places, and do animation in some random direction or to defined object - and that is not bad also. So at this point I'm not going to solve the problem of coordinates, but just use random coordinates - and this may work. But I want to apply moves, animation to figures. I can myself show some pictures even in Visual Basic using some standard graphics library like GDI(+), but to make there some good animation - that is not really possible. I face the problem that GDI+ - it doesn't support real 3d-graphics, what to speak of animation. Yes, they support similar to OpenGL objects like lines, rectangles, triangles, but performance is very different - OpenGL means hardware support of graphical processor, video card hardware. So I want to do my program with OpenGL. Well, I was thinking of something similar like DirectX - but when I think that I also have some Mac computer, and also may use something like android device - thus I better make program say, for OpenGL-ES (for iOS - iPad, iPhone etc), or even WebGl, but not for DirectX, as that is limitation to Microsoft, Windows etc. So better to learn some crossplatform technology like OpenGL, I think - and it is moreover- free. But some people say that DirectX is easier, so I may start learning from it, and then switch to OpenGL. well, I find , that yes, DirectX also have some .x file format, and it stores some 3d information, even animation, and OpenGL seems not to have something like this. But I find programs which can convert from any 3d program like 3dstudio-max or blender etc - into OpenGL C(++) code so this may work. But I think that just C++ is not the best choice, because it can hardly deal with Artificial intelligence in both computer linguistics and games (graphics, animation), so I am looking forward Lisp (as older language) or prolog. I was adviced also to use something like LUA (Luxinia), but I am not sure how can I do some more complicated tasks there also, though it seems to be easier to read. Actually I find languages like prolog and lisp better for my tasks - they might provide better language syntax - so it is more human and machine readable. So, if newlisp can even handle OpenGL - then it is really great thus... Thus I hope I can do everything I did in Visual Basic + GDI(+) - in newlisp+opengl. Because that was just some hobby, but now I see that I can do something greater with opengl and AI languages, and it may be useful for other people as well.

"newLISP with OpenGL at "
ok I'l see that link, this seem to be exactly two in one what I'm looking for - both AI (I mean LISP) + new graphics/OpenGL

Thank you

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:37 am
by vedaviz
cormullion wrote:"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" - ancient Chinese proverb

Perhaps you could just ask one simple question relating to the first step. And take it from there.

yes, I am just trying to compare few programming languages, and which one is better to use with my aim (text->movie/game/animation), so I think that this two in one - newLisp_OpenGL might be a very good place to start.

I just had a trouble to run it and compile for the first time, but then I just downloaded some OpenGL libraries/files and saved them into some common Windows, System(32), Program Files common folders, and that all started to compile well in both C(++) and newLisp.
Next thing I would need there - is the way to add new files into "database". Probably I'ld need some database for 3d-objects + animations + words (noun, verb). And I'ld need somehow to use that with OpenGL, to show text and graphics from there into openGL using newlisp.

If anyone have immediate help in this s/he is welcome to give me some links for that.

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:49 am
by vedaviz
cormullion wrote:"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" - ancient Chinese proverb

Perhaps you could just ask one simple question relating to the first step. And take it from there.

well, it is said that if we are solving one problem after another - we are only making our karma worse. That's right. And what you say is reasonable. The first and the best way to solve all the other problems is to do that in relationship with God. Then if we solve a problem of repeated birth and death - then all other problems may become insignificant. Then who will care for computer and Open, and maybe even LISP or artificial intelligence after our death, after some millions of years? But if we have to live in some immediate time and place and circumstance, some secondary aims like AI/LISP programming - that may be reasonable, and not contradictory to main purpose (pure devotional service to God, or say, Krishna-Caitanya, but that is philosophy, though I'ld better write it down today, as today is a special day, Ekadashi-fasting, so I might do more spiritual practice today.)

The thing is that I can't run away from society just like yogis do and do meditation there for hundreds of years. yes, some yogis could have lived thousands of years, and in Golden age they (and all people) are said to live for upto 100-000 years, and they could do meditation there for thousands of years, and they didn't require computers. But now we can see God in computer if we open some spiritual websites - that's kind of "virtual temple". And that's is also as good as meditation/yoga. So thus computers are not contrary to spiritual practice in this way, and if such computers help to see God, by just typing a word (like His holy name etc) - that's a good spiritual practice, I think. So I'm thinking in this way, and this might be abswer to your question - direct answer (because I speak of Krishna consciousness here, not just aritficial intelligence, which is more or less materialistic or sometimes yes, atheistic idea - because soul cannot come from matter, life cannot come from dead thing, but as mind is material element, just like intelligence and false ego, so mind or intelligence can be dead or artificial, what can we do? scriptures speak like this. But soul or heart can direct the mind and intelligence, and also - artificial intelligence. So thus computers look like "thinking", having "intelligence", but all that is extension from human intelligence, and ultimately from consciousness/soul, which are coming from Supreme Mind, Supreme iNtellignece, God. And God can't be artificial intelligence of course. Well, What am I talking about? ... )

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:45 am
by tumble

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:35 am
by Ryon
Turing's machine didn't know when to halt either, vedaviz.

Re: (semi)Auto Text -> (3d/anim opengl etc)graphics

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:51 am
by vedaviz
Ryon wrote:It sounds to me that you are trying to solve too many big problems all at once.

well is it so bad - to solve many problems at same time. Especially in a case if they WILL BE solved?
What do you think of this -
Quake2 Id MD2 Model viewer with Common Lisp ?
md2-view is just that, an Id MD2 model viewer.

though it is not newLisp, but it is still - LISP (I am looking for any available lisp to support what I need -
3d animation). If common lisp can do better animation, and use even .md2 models of quake2,
then why not choose it? though maybe I'll need newlisp in some cases let's see (it also looks nice).
The MD2 model file format was introduced by id Software when releasing Quake 2 in November 1997. It's a file format quite simple to use and understand.
MD2 models are frame-by-frame animated.
As far as I understand it is vector file format, but with raster textures, right?